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Anticipating the new High Elf release

Warhammer Fantasy High elves

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#1 Arydis

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 01:57 PM

So, we have the first official GW promotion for the upcoming High elves release.  

 

http://www.games-wor...jsp?pid=8900010

 

From the leaked information on the Bell of Lost Souls and Warseer, it looks like along with the new book there will be a number of fun/controversial models and kits.  I'm stoked for the release of the new Phoenix models as I had already started converting some of my Warhawk models into Phoenixes and I have several character models with the phoenix motif.  I plan on picking up at least that kit on release.

 

I'm also excited about the look of the new shadow warrior/ magic archer (maidenguard) kit.  I really like the look of the new magical bows and those models look truly "elite" to me as opposed to my standard HE archers.  I can't wait to see what they do with the rules.  

 

Although I like eagles, I'm not as excited about the flying chariot model, though I think it could be an interesting addition to the army.  

 

I'm worried about my PG possibly moving to rare and how they will change the rules on them and wondering about losing Speed of Asuryan army wide.  We'll see what happens soon!  



#2 Mawhonic

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 03:24 PM

Yes this should be a good one. I'm not too keen on the flying chariot either. It appears that Silver Helms are core now? I suppose the Phonix riders are the monstrous calvary?

 

Maidenguard look sweet.

 

Given the history, one of these new model kits will be quite powerful I would expect. Perhaps the teaser trailer means we'll get a new dragon?



#3 Arydis

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 05:21 PM

The teaser trailer to me seemed to refer to the Phoenix models more than a dragon teaser.  It seems like these will can be both ridden and unridden monsters.  I do not know if the "ice phoenix" will be a separate kit or if it will just be a different option of the same box.  This will make some great modeling opportunities if it is the case, but I don't think that these will be monstrous cavalry from the looks of it.  

 

I know all of the armies have been getting the monstrous cav upgrade, but I think that the High Elves are one army that doesn't necessarily need it.  I would love to see some true "dragon prince" models, but these may be too close to the cold ones or dragon ogres.  Let my army stand apart a bit.

 

Like I said earlier, the two kits on my short list are the magic bow maidenguard/ shadow warriors and the phoenix.  I would think that the shadow warriors will be getting some love from the rulebook and I wonder where the maidenguard will fit into the army list too.  In other rumors, we may be getting battlemages.  Sweet!

 

I wonder if the ridden griffon is going away. . . 



#4 Kaptun Krum

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 07:02 PM

Pretty sure the Phoenixes are one kit. Just swaps. Not a fan of the ice Phoenix. Kind of defeats the purpose and lore of a Phoenix.

I do like the maiden guard and may have to just get some just to paint

#5 Arydis

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 10:50 AM

So in picking up the White Dwarf this week and looking over the changes in the GW purchasing site, there are some things that I am really looking for in the near future:

 

1. Ellyrion Reavers and Silver Helms as core choices.  The models for both of these selections have moved to the Core page at the GW website.  I don't know how much the rules will change on these guys, but I'm excited about the option of fielding them more readily.

 

2. Loremaster of Hoeth - May only be a lvl 2 choice :( , but will be able to use the signature spells of all 8 lores and fight like a swordmaster.  This sounds awesome.

 

3. High Magic Lore - By squinting at the pictures of the magic cards in the White Dwarf, I could discern this much:

  - Lore attribute gives a +1 bonus to the Ward save of the wizard and his unit to a max of 3+ 

  - A spell in the Lore (or effect, I can't remember at the moment) that restores wounds similar to the Lore of Life attribute.

  - Two signature spells - Drain Magic is a neutralize augment/hex spell.  Cancels magic effects and remains in play spells on a unit.  Do not know if it will effect "permanent" type effects like those in the Metal lore (Plague of Rust).  The second signature spell is a boostable version of the Fury of Khaine spell (2d6 Str 4 magic missle able to boost to 4d6) with a different name.  I can't wait to see the rest of the Lore!

 

4. With new models, I can't wait to see the rules from the Maidenguard and Shadow Warriors and the Phoenix looks like it is going to be a win for me as well.  As I said earlier, before the release, I had already been modeling most of my army around a Phoenix/Flame theme, so I will have to save up to get one to the table.  I will probably proxy models for fun for now.  



#6 madival

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 02:38 PM

Sword masters and white lions appear to have taken a hit. They dont have speed of asuryan and only have always strikes first. Combine this with their great weapons means they hit at initiative. No more rerolling to hit for them!
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#7 The Kraken

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 03:47 PM

It was going to happen. Every high elf army took sword masters and white lions so naturally gw would make them less desirable so you would want to get all their new stuff. I think before the author of an army book/codex sits down to write the book, the sales team hands him a list of stuff to make crappier to make way for the new stuff.
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#8 Arydis

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 04:38 PM

Well, I'll reserve some judgment.  The whole army appears to be getting Martial Prowess which may give all of the units an extra rank of supporting attacks.  Although this will benefit the SM less than the White Lions, it could offset the hurting a bit. It also makes the hatred rules of the shadow warriors valid if they still have it.  The SM also appear to be getting a 6+ ward vs. non-template shooting attacks, which isn't great, but with Shield of Saphery could still be viable.  



#9 The Kraken

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 07:50 PM

The army is getting martial prowess and it does allow extra rank. For both melee and shooting. The big thing being talked about currently is the banner of the world dragon. It gives a 2+ ward save vs. magic, magic attacks, and magic weapons.
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#10 Tepogue

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 09:39 PM

It was going to happen. Every high elf army took sword masters and white lions so naturally gw would make them less desirable so you would want to get all their new stuff. I think before the author of an army book/codex sits down to write the book, the sales team hands him a list of stuff to make crappier to make way for the new stuff.

This is pretty much the truth. GW is a minatures company, not a game company. (Trust me, I went through GW corp training (AKA Brainwashing) when I went to the HQ to become one of the Roolzboyz back in 2000) The rules exist to sell models.


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#11 Kaptun Krum

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 01:11 PM

Ashley - when you get the new book I would definitely be interested in hearing your overall thoughts on the book. Any good nuggets you saw, and how your army list may be changing.

#12 Arydis

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 01:19 PM

Gladly.  I'll probably have my copy in hand on Monday though.  My birthday is then and I imagine my copy will be amongst my wife's birthday gifts to me.  



#13 Tepogue

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 03:37 PM

Eww, Banner of the World Dragon, costs 25 Skaven Slaves. gives a 2+ ward VS magic attacks.


http://tepogue.blogspot.com/

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#14 Kaptun Krum

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 07:51 AM

Thankfully the banner is only on one unit and thankfully elves are still toughness 3. Though it does make me wonder how I'm going to kill any character in that unit.

Probably need to do tricksters shard or something.

#15 Ralara

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 10:24 AM

It's going to be tricky, but I'm almost convinced that an AM will do very well in a unit of SM's. Just 2 spells and the units' got a 4++ against shooting and 5++ in CC. Now, this might be a bit of conjecture, but I've seen people taking the 2++ from banner of the world dragon against miscast results.. Thoughts?



#16 Arydis

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 12:03 PM

I think the miscast results depend on if the hits from the miscast are considered magical.  I want to say that they are (otherwise ethereals would be invulnerable to miscasts).



#17 Arydis

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 01:20 PM

So, my first thoughts about the book are:

 

You will see a lot more variation in HE core lists:  HE core has generally been MSUs of archers, blocks of spearmen or a mix of both.  The new book has some nice unit buffs that may encourage taking larger blocks of archers (hand of glory to increase BS by D3).  Monday's Bad Dice Daily even mentioned using 3x3 blocks of archers (as opposed to 5 wide) with the martial prowess rule to have a really small footprint.  You will still see blocks of spearmen for steadfast, but with the decrease in points cost for Sea Guard, you will see them more often as well to benefit both from the unit buffs and the large blocks.  On top of these changes, I know I expect to be fielding units of 5 Ellyrion Reavers as core.  I was already fielding them as special to hunt warmachines and now, I can do it as part of my core tithe.  With the addition of Reavers and Silver Helms as core, you may see entire "Swift Strike" calvary army builds as well.  I could conceive of an entire army meant to pick off the opponents artillery and BS shooting and then run circles around the other elements of some armies. (wouldn't work well vs. VC or Skaven though). 

 

The HE triad (Swordmasters, White Lions, and Phoenix Guard) only got better particularly from Martial Prowess.  The SM and White Lions went DOWN in points and the Phoenix Guard were neither nerfed in any way or moved to rare.  So, players who were already using them will not stop using them.  Now, all HE can attack with 2 supporting ranks instead of 1.  The WL and PG are often taken in blocks 5 wide and 4 or more deep, so it is a change of 10 attacks to 15 (at S6 and S4 respectively).  Also, as a minor aside, you are more likely to see Shadow Warriors with their lowered costs, but their rules are still unchanged.  

 

High Magic - Expect to see this lore.  The LVL 4s could cast 4 or more spells on 2 dice a piece fairly easily (with High Magic, they have an innate value of 5 with many spells requiring a 5 to cast.  They will use 2 to avoid the broken concentration and throw their last spell with 1.  So even a large archer mage bunker could have a 3+ ward save.  A level 2 may be used just for the Signature spells (drain magic, and the 2d6 S4 magic missile) to improve a ward save by 1 or 2 points.  

 

Loremaster, Sea Helm, Annointed, Handmaiden, and other non-Special Character Lord and Hero options -  I honestly don't know what to expect from these yet.  I think the key word is "options".  A lot of differently themed builds can be bullt around these options.  

 

I mean the Loremaster alone is a Swiss army knife.  Bunkered in a unit of swordmasters charging at a favorable target, shooting missiles from fire, light, metal, and death along the way, combat buffing and hexing with beasts, life, shadow and heavens.  

 

Maidens - I would anticipate seeing these in shooting heavy builds, but not in overwhelming numbers.  Although wonderful models, they are still basically higher BS archers with magic bows at +1 S.  

 

Skycutters - The changes in core and to the chariots may lead to chariot builds or highly mobile builds.  These in their different incarnations could make a significant piece of this style of army.  The bolt thrower version may also make more frequent appearances as a support piece.

 

Phoenixes - The Flamespyre will make a great support piece especially against high model count armies (VC and skaven) but won't wreck hobbies.  I like the rules for these and hobby centered players will use them for centerpieces.   With better rules for dragons, I think you are more likely to see them on the table as well especially if there is more than one large target to have cannons shoot at.  



#18 Kaptun Krum

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 01:35 PM

Question.. They lost their always strikes first now right? If so, that means Swordmasters and White Lions while hitting at high STR will be striking last now.

#19 The Kraken

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 01:38 PM

Yep SM and WL now hit with the rest of the great weapon wielders.
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#20 Kaptun Krum

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 02:23 PM

Now, this might be a bit of conjecture, but I've seen people taking the 2++ from banner of the world dragon against miscast results.. Thoughts?

I am going to go with no on this and use the FAQ as a reference:

Q: Is damage caused by a miscast counted as a spell? Can a model
with Magic Resistance add it to its ward save against it? (p34)
A: No to both questions.

Since it's not counted as a spell and you don't get to use MR against it, I'm going to say that the precedence sets it up that the banner wouldn't get to be used.





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